16 inch v. 24 centers with 3/4 inch ply flooring
Message 1 in thread From: Owen White (owhite@tigr.org ) Subject: 16 inch v. 24 centers with 3/4 inch ply flooring Date: 2003-04-18 07:59:18 PST I just completed laying down 2x4 sleepers on 24 inch centers over concrete. I place insulation between the sleepers, laid a vapor barrier, and socked down 3/4 inch tongue and groove plywood. I got this construction from some book on house construction. Then I started looking around and saw that most people either did 24 inch centers with 1 & 1/8 inch ply, or 16 inch centers with 3/4. My mistake, starting over I just would go with 16 inch centers. I'm sweating the decision to having gone with 24 inch centers. Does anyone have any comments on this? If I have to, I'll just lay more plywood down, probably by unscrewing the floor screws and laying another 1/2 of ply (no T&G) and placing the T&G over that. This will require screwing with a door frame that I wish to avoid. One note: fearing I made a mistake with going with 24 inches I also placed crosswise 2x4 pieces every 4 feet between the sleepers. Figured that would give some additional support and help the plywood meet better at the edges. comments would be helpful, Owen Message 2 in thread From: Rico dJour (ricodjour@aol.computer ) Subject: Re: 16 inch v. 24 centers with 3/4 inch ply flooring Date: 2003-04-18 08:23:43 PST >From: owhite@tigr.org (Owen White) > >I just completed laying down 2x4 sleepers on 24 inch centers over >concrete. I place insulation between the sleepers, laid a vapor >barrier, and socked down 3/4 inch tongue and groove plywood. I got >this construction from some book on house construction. Then I started >looking around and saw that most people either did 24 inch centers >with 1 & 1/8 inch ply, or 16 inch centers with 3/4. My mistake, >starting over I just would go with 16 inch centers. > >I'm sweating the decision to having gone with 24 inch centers. Does >anyone have any comments on this? If I have to, I'll just lay more >plywood down, probably by unscrewing the floor screws and laying >another 1/2 of ply (no T&G) and placing the T&G over that. This will >require screwing with a door frame that I wish to avoid. > >One note: fearing I made a mistake with going with 24 inches I also >placed crosswise 2x4 pieces every 4 feet between the sleepers. Figured >that would give some additional support and help the plywood meet >better at the edges. Unless you have unusual loads or are planning on installing ceramic tile, you're fine. There's no need to change anything - assuming that you have the plywood running perpendicularly to the sleepers. R Message 3 in thread From: Donk Plonkembach Subject: Re: 16 inch v. 24 centers with 3/4 inch ply flooring Date: 2003-04-18 12:54:12 PST Owen; Although the wooden sleepers system wouldn't have been my choice, your plywood will be adequately supported provided that you used rigid insulation of the same thickness as the 2x4s (ie 1.5") In fact, you could have omitted the 2x4 sleepers altogether and used the rigid insulation as the only supporting material since its compression resistance (10 psi for EPS and 30 psi for XPS) is more than enough for typical residential floor loads. On 18 Apr 2003 15:22:26 GMT, ricodjour@aol.computer (Rico dJour) wrote: > >From: owhite@tigr.org (Owen White) > > > >I just completed laying down 2x4 sleepers on 24 inch centers over > >concrete. I place insulation between the sleepers, laid a vapor > >barrier, and socked down 3/4 inch tongue and groove plywood. I got > >this construction from some book on house construction. Then I started > >looking around and saw that most people either did 24 inch centers > >with 1 & 1/8 inch ply, or 16 inch centers with 3/4. My mistake, > >starting over I just would go with 16 inch centers. > > > >I'm sweating the decision to having gone with 24 inch centers. Does > >anyone have any comments on this? If I have to, I'll just lay more > >plywood down, probably by unscrewing the floor screws and laying > >another 1/2 of ply (no T&G) and placing the T&G over that. This will > >require screwing with a door frame that I wish to avoid. > > > >One note: fearing I made a mistake with going with 24 inches I also > >placed crosswise 2x4 pieces every 4 feet between the sleepers. Figured > >that would give some additional support and help the plywood meet > >better at the edges. > > Unless you have unusual loads or are planning on installing ceramic tile, > you're fine. There's no need to change anything - assuming that you have the > plywood running perpendicularly to the sleepers. > > R Message 4 in thread From: Lyle B. Harwood Subject: Re: 16 inch v. 24 centers with 3/4 inch ply flooring Date: 2003-04-18 09:11:17 PST In article <65a07e7c.0304180659.55609450@posting.google.com>, Owen White wrote: € I just completed laying down 2x4 sleepers on 24 inch centers over € concrete. I place insulation between the sleepers, laid a vapor € barrier, and socked down 3/4 inch tongue and groove plywood. I got € this construction from some book on house construction. Then I started € looking around and saw that most people either did 24 inch centers € with 1 & 1/8 inch ply, or 16 inch centers with 3/4. My mistake, € starting over I just would go with 16 inch centers. € € I'm sweating the decision to having gone with 24 inch centers. Does € anyone have any comments on this? If I have to, I'll just lay more € plywood down, probably by unscrewing the floor screws and laying € another 1/2 of ply (no T&G) and placing the T&G over that. This will € require screwing with a door frame that I wish to avoid. € € One note: fearing I made a mistake with going with 24 inches I also € placed crosswise 2x4 pieces every 4 feet between the sleepers. Figured € that would give some additional support and help the plywood meet € better at the edges. € € comments would be helpful, € Owen It sounds to me like you're finished. If that's true, then there are really only three issues that matter. One, does it bounce? If not, it's probably fine for anything but tile. Two, what finish is going down? If it's tile, (I doubt that, tile would have wanted to go down without the sleeper/plywood system) you want considerably less bounce than other finishes. Three, if you can unscrew the floor screws and pull the plywood up, it sounds like you didn't glue the plywood to the sleepers. Plywood likes to be glued down, because that prevents squeaks in the future. For this reason, you may want to take the plywood back up, anyway. If you do that, and decide that the bounce is too much, I would add a sleeper in between each sleeper, which would give you 12 inch centers. That would eliminate screwing with the door, and it would keep the floor to the original height, as well as being easier. There wouldn't be any bounce in that floor, boy howdy... I'm curious about the vapor barrier. Is it between the sleepers and the concrete, or between the sleepers and the plywood? If the latter, I hope the sleepers are treated. I don't like this option, because one, you need treated sleepers, and two, you can't glue the plywood down. What book did you use? Best of luck, and let us know how it comes out! -- Lyle B. Harwood, President Phoenix Homes, Inc. (206) 523-9500 www.phoenixhomesinc.com Message 5 in thread From: Phillipe Tana Subject: Re: 16 inch v. 24 centers with 3/4 inch ply flooring Date: 2003-04-18 16:46:34 PST Lyle... I really enjoy reading posts like this one. Unfortunately, because of your consitant whining about advertising AND advertising yourself at the same time, I'm putting you on my blocked senders list. *IF* these posts you complain about are against any rules, report them to your ISP and the posters ISP and they will be dealt with. I'm sure that your childish whining is against the rules moreso that any of the posts you complain about (Same goes for you Inigo). As for the rest of us, lets just block Lyle if we don't like his whining. There's no point in blocking him if everyone is going to reply to his posts. Just my thoughts... Thanks! Message 6 in thread From: s c r o o g e Subject: Re: 16 inch v. 24 centers with 3/4 inch ply flooring Date: 2003-04-18 20:00:04 PST you got MY vote on banning harwood, and if you got MY vote, you got everybody's vote, i'm sure...except harwood's... WHAAAAHAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA AHAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Message 7 in thread From: Matthew S. Whiting Subject: Re: 16 inch v. 24 centers with 3/4 inch ply flooring Date: 2003-04-18 14:17:49 PST Owen White wrote: > I just completed laying down 2x4 sleepers on 24 inch centers over > concrete. I place insulation between the sleepers, laid a vapor > barrier, and socked down 3/4 inch tongue and groove plywood. I got > this construction from some book on house construction. Then I started > looking around and saw that most people either did 24 inch centers > with 1 & 1/8 inch ply, or 16 inch centers with 3/4. My mistake, > starting over I just would go with 16 inch centers. Did you really mean that you put the vapor barrier (I'm assuming poly sheet) on top of the 2x4s and insulation? Most recommendations I've seen for working on concrete recommend the poly go down first. Otherwise, any moisture coming through the concrete will rot the 2x4s. > I'm sweating the decision to having gone with 24 inch centers. Does > anyone have any comments on this? If I have to, I'll just lay more > plywood down, probably by unscrewing the floor screws and laying > another 1/2 of ply (no T&G) and placing the T&G over that. This will > require screwing with a door frame that I wish to avoid. The only issue is you may get a little more spring in the floor, but it isn't a structural issue as you can only "fall" 1.5" even if the sheathing fails completely. I wouldn't worry about. > One note: fearing I made a mistake with going with 24 inches I also > placed crosswise 2x4 pieces every 4 feet between the sleepers. Figured > that would give some additional support and help the plywood meet > better at the edges. What floor covering do you have in mind? If you are using ceramic tile, then you may get enough flex to have problems. If you are using hardwood, putting it perpendicular to the 2x4s and you should have plenty of stiffness. If you use carpet, you'll never notice the spring given the thickness of the carpet and pad. Matt Message 8 in thread From: Donald Lee Phillips, Jr., P.E. Subject: Re: 16 inch v. 24 centers with 3/4 inch ply flooring Date: 2003-04-20 17:42:42 PST "Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message news:3EA06BF0.5060002@epix.net ... > Owen White wrote: > > I just completed laying down 2x4 sleepers on 24 inch centers over > > concrete. I place insulation between the sleepers, laid a vapor > > barrier, and socked down 3/4 inch tongue and groove plywood. I got > > this construction from some book on house construction. Then I started > > looking around and saw that most people either did 24 inch centers > > with 1 & 1/8 inch ply, or 16 inch centers with 3/4. My mistake, > > starting over I just would go with 16 inch centers. > > Did you really mean that you put the vapor barrier (I'm assuming poly > sheet) on top of the 2x4s and insulation? Most recommendations I've > seen for working on concrete recommend the poly go down first. > Otherwise, any moisture coming through the concrete will rot the 2x4s. The sleepers should have been treated. Sincerely, Donald Lee Phillips, Jr., P.E. Worthington Engineering, Inc. 145 Greenglade Avenue Worthington, OH 43085-2264 dphillips@worthingtonNSengineering.com (remove NS to use the address) 614.937.0463 voice 208.975.1011 fax http://worthingtonengineering.com Message 9 in thread From: Eric Ryder Subject: Re: 16 inch v. 24 centers with 3/4 inch ply flooring Your 24" centers are fine with T&G subfloor grade plywood (it's usually span rated 16/24). If you want a stiffer surface, use underlayment grade ply on top of what you have. Re the other posts: Your screws should prevent future squeaks (especially if they are threaded for their entire length). Running the VB over untreated sleepers is a concern, particularly if there was no underslab VB. Message 10 in thread From: robb hartlage Subject: Re: 16 inch v. 24 centers with 3/4 inch ply flooring Date: 2003-04-25 17:16:13 PST http://www.dricore.com/english/home.htm This is a product we just installed on a concrete slab. The finish floor will be linoleum tiles. We snapped the dricore together in just over a day (no glue, no nails), the flooring sub is in the process of laying down the Luan. The material leaves an air space under the dimpled plastic (which also acts as a vapor barrier) to keep the floor from losing heat to the slab. Very nice product. -- Robb Hartlage