residential code for compressed gasses
From: Owen White (owhite@tigr.org)
Subject: residential code for compressed gasses
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-03 05:25:31 PST
Hey People,
I'm running oxygen, propane, and nitrogen lines from gas bottles into
the studio I'm building. (Oxygen and propane go to torches, nitrogen
is for my laser). Does anyone have suggestions for where I can read up
on code restrictions for said gasses? Answers such as "Contact your
local fire marshall" lack creativity. I'd like to do some reading
before I invite the fire marshall onto the site. The studio is ~350sq
ft and attached to the house.
Owen
Message 2 in thread
From: JD (nomail@spamcentral.com)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-03 05:33:17 PST
Owen White wrote in message
news:65a07e7c.0309030425.4a0d7024@posting.google.com...
> Hey People,
>
> I'm running oxygen, propane, and nitrogen lines from gas bottles into
> the studio I'm building. (Oxygen and propane go to torches, nitrogen
> is for my laser). Does anyone have suggestions for where I can read up
> on code restrictions for said gasses? Answers such as "Contact your
> local fire marshall" lack creativity. I'd like to do some reading
> before I invite the fire marshall onto the site. The studio is ~350sq
> ft and attached to the house.
>
> Owen
It's addressed in your building code wich may also reference a NFPA code.
Message 3 in thread
From: Ray (nospam@optonline.net)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-03 07:16:22 PST
In alt.building.construction, Msg ID: <65a07e7c.0309030425.4a0d7024@posting.google.com>
owhite@tigr.org (Owen White), wrote:
>Hey People,
>
>I'm running oxygen, propane, and nitrogen lines from gas bottles into
>the studio I'm building. (Oxygen and propane go to torches, nitrogen
>is for my laser). Does anyone have suggestions for where I can read up
>on code restrictions for said gasses? Answers such as "Contact your
>local fire marshall" lack creativity. I'd like to do some reading
>before I invite the fire marshall onto the site. The studio is ~350sq
>ft and attached to the house.
How about..
Contact your bottled gas supplier?
Mine has lot's of literature..
Also has tank filling equipment..
You sound like the curious type, so I'd venture to say
You've already gotten a "cook's" tour of the joint.
- I only sneaked a peek myself.. No plans in progress though.
Message 4 in thread
From: Owen White (owhite@tigr.org)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-03 10:51:48 PST
an addendum. I called the building code office. I told them that I was
going to use oxygen and propane in a studio and wanted to know the
relevant building codes. They connected me to the fire marshall's
office. I told that I was going to use oxygen and propane in a studio
and wanted to know the relevant building codes. I was told that all I
have to do is have a licensed plumber install the gas lines. "Really?"
I axed, "Even if I'm gonna use oxygen?" and they said "Our office does
not concern itself with gas lines. Just need a licensed plumber." Go
figure. Like I'm not going to beg them to make me do a permit or
follow byzantine codeology.
I thought there'd be restrictions on having signage up for combustable
gasses and issues about where its okay to run pipe and whatever. A
friend who is a welder told me there were rules about how close tanks
of different types of gas could be to each other. But hey dont have to
make me ask twice. Sounds like a snap -- I want the tanks outside, and
run in black pipe with fittings inside the studio. Should be
enlightening. I'll keep people posted.
And comments are welcome because it seems like some agency would have
restrictions on gasses used in residential. Guess I can just ask a
licensed plumber.
Owen
owhite@tigr.org (Owen White) wrote in message news:<65a07e7c.0309030425.4a0d7024@posting.google.com>...
> Hey People,
>
> I'm running oxygen, propane, and nitrogen lines from gas bottles into
> the studio I'm building. (Oxygen and propane go to torches, nitrogen
> is for my laser). Does anyone have suggestions for where I can read up
> on code restrictions for said gasses? Answers such as "Contact your
> local fire marshall" lack creativity. I'd like to do some reading
> before I invite the fire marshall onto the site. The studio is ~350sq
> ft and attached to the house.
>
> Owen
Message 5 in thread
From: JD (NO_MAIL@tired-o-spam.com)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-03 11:11:03 PST
All I can say is whomever you spoke to at the building department needs to
read his code.
"Owen White" wrote in message
news:65a07e7c.0309030951.587957f9@posting.google.com...
> an addendum. I called the building code office. I told them that I was
> going to use oxygen and propane in a studio and wanted to know the
> relevant building codes. They connected me to the fire marshall's
> office. I told that I was going to use oxygen and propane in a studio
> and wanted to know the relevant building codes. I was told that all I
> have to do is have a licensed plumber install the gas lines. "Really?"
> I axed, "Even if I'm gonna use oxygen?" and they said "Our office does
> not concern itself with gas lines. Just need a licensed plumber." Go
> figure. Like I'm not going to beg them to make me do a permit or
> follow byzantine codeology.
>
> I thought there'd be restrictions on having signage up for combustable
> gasses and issues about where its okay to run pipe and whatever. A
> friend who is a welder told me there were rules about how close tanks
> of different types of gas could be to each other. But hey dont have to
> make me ask twice. Sounds like a snap -- I want the tanks outside, and
> run in black pipe with fittings inside the studio. Should be
> enlightening. I'll keep people posted.
>
> And comments are welcome because it seems like some agency would have
> restrictions on gasses used in residential. Guess I can just ask a
> licensed plumber.
>
> Owen
>
> owhite@tigr.org (Owen White) wrote in message news:<65a07e7c.0309030425.4a0d7024@posting.google.com>...
> > Hey People,
> >
> > I'm running oxygen, propane, and nitrogen lines from gas bottles into
> > the studio I'm building. (Oxygen and propane go to torches, nitrogen
> > is for my laser). Does anyone have suggestions for where I can read up
> > on code restrictions for said gasses? Answers such as "Contact your
> > local fire marshall" lack creativity. I'd like to do some reading
> > before I invite the fire marshall onto the site. The studio is ~350sq
> > ft and attached to the house.
> >
> > Owen
Message 6 in thread
From: Owen White (owhite@tigr.org)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-03 18:36:22 PST
"JD" wrote in message news:...
> All I can say is whomever you spoke to at the building department needs to
> read his code.
>
well yeah but like what do I do to actually find out about what code
requirements I should follow?
Owen
Message 7 in thread
From: JD (nomail@spamcentral.com)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-03 21:43:09 PST
Owen White wrote in message
news:65a07e7c.0309031736.38de6d46@posting.google.com...
> "JD" wrote in message news:...
> > All I can say is whomever you spoke to at the building department needs to
> > read his code.
> >
>
> well yeah but like what do I do to actually find out about what code
> requirements I should follow?
I guess you need to read the code. The 1997 UBC lists exempt quantities in
table 3D. The exemption refer to special building requirements. I suspect
that one tank of each will be exempt. Separation requirements are detailed
in one of the NFPA codes. Sorry, can't recall which. I suppose plumbing
requirements are in the UPC and NFPA as well.
Someone mentioned that your gas supplier should have basic installation
information. I think that's an excellent idea. Reputable gas distributors
will not deliver to unsafe installations so I'm sure they'll be happy to
help.
Message 8 in thread
From: Mark & Shauna (no@no.com)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-03 17:44:33 PST
I take it you are going to regulate the oxygen and then pipe it? This
sounds like a pain in that if you need to change your pressure you would
have to go outside. Other than that you will have to run a line which is
capable of handling 4000 psi (tank pressure) of oxygen into the studio
and regulate there. Steel hydraulic tubing would be my choice for this.
You can get some 1/2" .095 DOM and run it in using hydraulic fittings
(jic) would be much better than trying to thread double or tripple extra
heavy steel pipe (gas pipe but thick wall).
Only other suggestion would be to valve it right at the tank as well so
that when you do run low on gas and need to swap out tanks you dont lose
all the material in the lines. A high pressure ball valve right at the
tank connection would work nicely. Again, it would have to be a 4000psi
ball valve. A good bit of material will be in the lines that will just
get blown down when you swap tanks.
You may have all this covered, but I thought I would mention it as I
have set up a few shops with O2, argon and mix, acetylene, and propane.
None of them were shops where we gave a rats ass about codes but they
were all done with appropriate saftey measures.
Mark
Owen White wrote:
> an addendum. I called the building code office. I told them that I was
> going to use oxygen and propane in a studio and wanted to know the
> relevant building codes. They connected me to the fire marshall's
> office. I told that I was going to use oxygen and propane in a studio
> and wanted to know the relevant building codes. I was told that all I
> have to do is have a licensed plumber install the gas lines. "Really?"
> I axed, "Even if I'm gonna use oxygen?" and they said "Our office does
> not concern itself with gas lines. Just need a licensed plumber." Go
> figure. Like I'm not going to beg them to make me do a permit or
> follow byzantine codeology.
>
> I thought there'd be restrictions on having signage up for combustable
> gasses and issues about where its okay to run pipe and whatever. A
> friend who is a welder told me there were rules about how close tanks
> of different types of gas could be to each other. But hey dont have to
> make me ask twice. Sounds like a snap -- I want the tanks outside, and
> run in black pipe with fittings inside the studio. Should be
> enlightening. I'll keep people posted.
>
> And comments are welcome because it seems like some agency would have
> restrictions on gasses used in residential. Guess I can just ask a
> licensed plumber.
>
> Owen
>
> owhite@tigr.org (Owen White) wrote in message news:<65a07e7c.0309030425.4a0d7024@posting.google.com>...
>
>>Hey People,
>>
>>I'm running oxygen, propane, and nitrogen lines from gas bottles into
>>the studio I'm building. (Oxygen and propane go to torches, nitrogen
>>is for my laser). Does anyone have suggestions for where I can read up
>>on code restrictions for said gasses? Answers such as "Contact your
>>local fire marshall" lack creativity. I'd like to do some reading
>>before I invite the fire marshall onto the site. The studio is ~350sq
>>ft and attached to the house.
>>
>> Owen
>
Message 9 in thread
From: Ray (nospam@optonline.net)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-04 09:17:59 PST
In alt.building.construction, Msg ID: <3F568AE2.5040507@no.com>
Mark & Shauna , wrote:
>I take it you are going to regulate the oxygen and then pipe it? This
>sounds like a pain in that if you need to change your pressure you would
>have to go outside. Other than that you will have to run a line which is
>capable of handling 4000 psi (tank pressure) of oxygen into the studio
>and regulate there. Steel hydraulic tubing would be my choice for this.
>You can get some 1/2" .095 DOM and run it in using hydraulic fittings
>(jic) would be much better than trying to thread double or tripple extra
>heavy steel pipe (gas pipe but thick wall).
You are a fucking asshole..
And dangerous too.
********** Please try again **********
-- Stupidity doesn't come naturally --
-- You have to work hard to perfect it --
Message 10 in thread
From: Ray (nospam@optonline.net)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
View: Complete Thread (13 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-04 09:16:07 PST
In alt.building.construction, Msg ID: <65a07e7c.0309030951.587957f9@posting.google.com>
owhite@tigr.org (Owen White), wrote:
>an addendum.
> I called the building code office.
Can I take this to mean Building Dept?
> I told them that I was
>going to use oxygen and propane
Compressed air works pretty well too..
> in a studio and wanted to know the relevant building codes.
>They connected me to the fire marshall's office.
They investigate the cause of fires , don't they?
> I told that I was going to use oxygen and propane in a studio
>and wanted to know the relevant building codes.
>I was told that all I have to do is
>have a licensed plumber install the gas lines. "Really?"
I doubt it..
But what would they know?
>I axed, "Even if I'm gonna use oxygen?" and they said "Our office does
>not concern itself with gas lines. Just need a licensed plumber." Go
>figure. Like I'm not going to beg them to make me do a permit or
>follow byzantine codeology.
Better check your fire insurance policy..
>I thought there'd be restrictions on having signage up for combustable
>gasses and issues about where its okay to run pipe and whatever. A
>friend who is a welder told me there were rules about how close tanks
>of different types of gas could be to each other. But hey dont have to
>make me ask twice. Sounds like a snap -- I want the tanks outside, and
>run in black pipe with fittings inside the studio. Should be
>enlightening. I'll keep people posted.
There are..
Especially for storage in enclosed spaces.
>And comments are welcome because it seems like some agency would have
>restrictions on gasses used in residential. Guess I can just ask a
>licensed plumber.
Msg ID:
Ray , wrote:
Better places to start..
It will let you see the certs you're referring to.
In the final analysis, I believe it comes down to an insurance issue
When you're done,
Let me know if the Oxy Acetylene set up in my garage is a problem, Okay?
I think not, unless it is found to be the CAUSE of the fire,
But I could be wrong.
But not insane like
In alt.building.construction, Msg ID: <3F568AE2.5040507@no.com>
Mark & Shauna , wrote:
>I take it you are going to regulate the oxygen and then pipe it? This
>sounds like a pain in that if you need to change your pressure you would
>have to go outside. Other than that you will have to run a line which is
>capable of handling 4000 psi (tank pressure) of oxygen into the studio
>and regulate there
You will, of course have separate regulators..
10-15 psi should do the trick for welding AND cutting torches.
From: Don Phillips (dphillips@worthingtonNSengineering.com)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-06 06:38:59 PST
"Owen White" wrote in message
news:65a07e7c.0309030951.587957f9@posting.google.com...
> an addendum. I called the building code office. I told them that I was
> going to use oxygen and propane in a studio and wanted to know the
> relevant building codes. They connected me to the fire marshall's
> office. I told that I was going to use oxygen and propane in a studio
> and wanted to know the relevant building codes. I was told that all I
> have to do is have a licensed plumber install the gas lines. "Really?"
> I axed, "Even if I'm gonna use oxygen?" and they said "Our office does
> not concern itself with gas lines. Just need a licensed plumber." Go
> figure. Like I'm not going to beg them to make me do a permit or
> follow byzantine codeology.
I am not sure you should have been transfered to the fire marshall. I
suspect the person answering the phone - who does not necessarily have
extensive code knowledge - put you through to who they thought was the right
person. I would try again and ask for either a plans examiner, the building
offical, or a building inspecotr (in that order).
> I thought there'd be restrictions on having signage up for combustable
> gasses and issues about where its okay to run pipe and whatever. A
> friend who is a welder told me there were rules about how close tanks
> of different types of gas could be to each other. But hey dont have to
> make me ask twice. Sounds like a snap -- I want the tanks outside, and
> run in black pipe with fittings inside the studio. Should be
> enlightening. I'll keep people posted.
Some of these restrictions are in the Fire Code.
> And comments are welcome because it seems like some agency would have
> restrictions on gasses used in residential. Guess I can just ask a
> licensed plumber.
Another issue you may get into is zoning. If, during a plan review of your
studio drawings, it is determined that use if B, you may not be allowed to
proceed with the project. Some zoning codes allow home occupations and what
you describe may be closer to that than an actual B use (in code speak).
You may want to touch base with someone in case zoning is an issue.
Sometimes a little tweaking of a plan makes the zoning issues go away.
Sincerely,
Donald L. Phillips, Jr., P.E.
Worthington Engineering, Inc.
145 Greenglade Avenue
Worthington, OH 43085-2264
dphillips@worthingtonNSengineering.com
(remove NS to use the address)
614.937.0463 voice
208.975.1011 fax
http://worthingtonengineering.com
Message 12 in thread
From: Don Phillips (dphillips@worthingtonNSengineering.com)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-04 14:42:44 PST
"Owen White" wrote in message
news:65a07e7c.0309030425.4a0d7024@posting.google.com...
> Hey People,
>
> I'm running oxygen, propane, and nitrogen lines from gas bottles into
> the studio I'm building. (Oxygen and propane go to torches, nitrogen
> is for my laser). Does anyone have suggestions for where I can read up
> on code restrictions for said gasses? Answers such as "Contact your
> local fire marshall" lack creativity. I'd like to do some reading
> before I invite the fire marshall onto the site. The studio is ~350sq
> ft and attached to the house.
I am not sure what exact code your jurisdiction uses but you can start with
the International Fuel Gas Code. The Building Code places restrictions on
quantities but normally does not apply to single family residential, a.k.a.
R-3. Most jurisdictions will have a separate residential code and I do not
recall fuel gases being addressed directly in the residential code.
Another possibility is the International Fire Code that a lot of fire
departments adopt as their fire prevention code. I do not think it is as
detailed as what you would find in the Fuel Gas code but it should speak to
signage.
Lastly, try looking through the National Fire Protection Association
catalogue (www.nfpa.org) to see if there is a code closely resembling your
question. Your local fire department should have these NFPA codes you can
look through if the library does not have it.
Sincerely,
Donald L. Phillips, Jr., P.E.
Worthington Engineering, Inc.
145 Greenglade Avenue
Worthington, OH 43085-2264
dphillips@worthingtonNSengineering.com
(remove NS to use the address)
614.937.0463 voice
208.975.1011 fax
http://worthingtonengineering.com
Message 13 in thread
From: Owen White (owhite@tigr.org)
Subject: Re: residential code for compressed gasses
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
Date: 2003-09-06 15:42:15 PST
Don,
thanks for all this great advice. I'll start phoning around and see
what to do next. I also have neighbor that's a fireman and he said he
could do some checking around for me too. I'll follow up with people
when I get the news -- probably for emotional support when I get
sucked into all kinds of extra work. :-)
thanks again,
Owen
"Don Phillips" wrote in message news:...
> "Owen White" wrote in message
> news:65a07e7c.0309030951.587957f9@posting.google.com...
> > an addendum. I called the building code office. I told them that I was
> > going to use oxygen and propane in a studio and wanted to know the
> > relevant building codes. They connected me to the fire marshall's
> > office. I told that I was going to use oxygen and propane in a studio
> > and wanted to know the relevant building codes. I was told that all I
> > have to do is have a licensed plumber install the gas lines. "Really?"
> > I axed, "Even if I'm gonna use oxygen?" and they said "Our office does
> > not concern itself with gas lines. Just need a licensed plumber." Go
> > figure. Like I'm not going to beg them to make me do a permit or
> > follow byzantine codeology.
>
> I am not sure you should have been transfered to the fire marshall. I
> suspect the person answering the phone - who does not necessarily have
> extensive code knowledge - put you through to who they thought was the right
> person. I would try again and ask for either a plans examiner, the building
> offical, or a building inspecotr (in that order).
>
> > I thought there'd be restrictions on having signage up for combustable
> > gasses and issues about where its okay to run pipe and whatever. A
> > friend who is a welder told me there were rules about how close tanks
> > of different types of gas could be to each other. But hey dont have to
> > make me ask twice. Sounds like a snap -- I want the tanks outside, and
> > run in black pipe with fittings inside the studio. Should be
> > enlightening. I'll keep people posted.
>
> Some of these restrictions are in the Fire Code.
>
> > And comments are welcome because it seems like some agency would have
> > restrictions on gasses used in residential. Guess I can just ask a
> > licensed plumber.
>
> Another issue you may get into is zoning. If, during a plan review of your
> studio drawings, it is determined that use if B, you may not be allowed to
> proceed with the project. Some zoning codes allow home occupations and what
> you describe may be closer to that than an actual B use (in code speak).
> You may want to touch base with someone in case zoning is an issue.
> Sometimes a little tweaking of a plan makes the zoning issues go away.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Donald L. Phillips, Jr., P.E.
> Worthington Engineering, Inc.
> 145 Greenglade Avenue
> Worthington, OH 43085-2264
>
> dphillips@worthingtonNSengineering.com
> (remove NS to use the address)
> 614.937.0463 voice
> 208.975.1011 fax
>
> http://worthingtonengineering.com